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  #61  
Old 07-05-2015, 09:09 AM
bogie89 bogie89 is offline
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Originally Posted by Scarlet View Post
I, quite frankly, would love to see EVGA do with the 980 KPE like they did with the 970ftw to FTW+ step-up process, but I feel it is very unlikely that will ever happen.

I am happy with my 980 KPE's, but I like having the latest and most refined hardware available, and I won't be affording these since I am paying off credit cards this round. I look forward to everyone elses adventures with them though.
me too
the 980kpe has been released too late and we'll see how evga will manage the situation.
i'm confident in a step-up program to upgrade our 980kpe with a 980ti kpe + some cash directly from evga....
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  #62  
Old 07-05-2015, 10:09 AM
ssiperko ssiperko is offline
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Originally Posted by bogie89 View Post
me too
the 980kpe has been released too late and we'll see how evga will manage the situation.
i'm confident in a step-up program to upgrade our 980kpe with a 980ti kpe + some cash directly from evga....
Lets hope so.

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  #63  
Old 07-05-2015, 02:16 PM
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digmeahole digmeahole is offline
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THANK YOU for confirming what a lot of us though but could not prove!


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Originally Posted by k|ngp|n View Post
Honestly speaking, I think most end users don't even realize how maxwell gpus are voltage capped at ambient type cooling. I can tell by many of the comments at OC.net, elsewhere, and also here in these card XOC bios threads. Especially compared to kepler. KP 780ti scaled great on voltage with air/water temps. Basically, more voltage = more clocks no matter what temperature.
With 980 and later gpus including titanX, the scaling on air/water has all but almost gone. I would say about 95% of all maxwell 980,titan-X, and 980ti gpus NO MATTER what vga brand pcb it is on, DO NOT SCALE with more voltage than 1.25v-1.275v at temps warmer than 25c or so. There is no magical bios that can effectively remove this.

This is exactly why almost every moderate-good asic titanX, 980, and yes 980ti clock around 1550mhz MAX AVERAGE at say 45-60C loading temps.
If you put 0c and colder on the card, you will see MUCH different behavior than what you see on air (green garbage all over screen when raising volts over 1.23-1.25vv or so)
Cards with very good ASIC value (75% and up) will tend to have the most "overclocking", but just like about every other maxwell gpu, they cannot overvolt past 1.23v-1.25v.
So highest asic cards like 80% +are almost always going to be the ones that can 1600+ on air/water, and again they do it pretty much WITHOUT overvolting over 1.23v-1.25v. Maxwell gpus with lower asic value like 65% will not be so great at air/water because these low asic gpus need voltage to scale compared to match the overclock of the high asic gpus( USING SAME USABLE VOLTAGE 1.23-1.25v)

The bios's I posted basically allow you to set a higher voltage on air/water. Some gpus can scale more, some cant, some actually will NEED more voltage than was previously needed to run same frequency. All different.

Have a better understanding now?
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  #64  
Old 07-05-2015, 10:39 PM
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k|ngp|n k|ngp|n is offline
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Sure.
Hey...are you antandbetty on evga forum?
You kind of implied that I meant NV is blocking v. scaling on purpose. It's not as nefarious as you make it sound on evga forum, really . I doubt its working this way and intentional and very well could be the reality of how this generations process scales at ambient temps or the net/indirect effect of some other internal calibration which effects scaling at ambient.
No matter, there is a steep scaling slope with regards to voltage/clocks/temps with maxwell 980. The custom cards are already boosting to around 1450mmhz, that's not going to leave tons of headroom for overclocking at ambient temps. KPE cards are engineered for highest speeds possible. In addition to the hardcore stuff like a massively capable VR, 12 layer pcb with greatly improved layout and pcb heating element, we DO add extras like RGB lighting, custom kpe cooler, and single slot capability with unique display output for you other guys who like the cards too. We are currently working on ways to improve the ambient voltage scaling on 980 and 980Ti gpus.
Copper cooler on the KPE 980Ti is nice, it runs around 6c cooler than normal acx2.0. This is definitely not an Ln2 or extreme feature, but still a nice improvement.
There will be one way around this issue soon with Kp 980Ti
And hey don't just take my word for it..Check out post number #12 in the comments section in this techpowerup article about classified ti980 launching. Whoever posted that knows EXACTLY what they are talking about...I could not have said it better myself:
http://www.techpowerup.com/213971/ev...d-acx-2-0.html

Last edited by k|ngp|n; 07-06-2015 at 03:54 AM.
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  #65  
Old 07-06-2015, 02:52 PM
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digmeahole digmeahole is offline
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just answered your pm. sorry it took me so long as i just got home form work... Sorry for the misunderstanding as i did not mean to imply it was on purpose.


Quote:
Originally Posted by k|ngp|n View Post
Sure.
Hey...are you antandbetty on evga forum?
You kind of implied that I meant NV is blocking v. scaling on purpose. It's not as nefarious as you make it sound on evga forum, really . I doubt its working this way and intentional and very well could be the reality of how this generations process scales at ambient temps or the net/indirect effect of some other internal calibration which effects scaling at ambient.
No matter, there is a steep scaling slope with regards to voltage/clocks/temps with maxwell 980. The custom cards are already boosting to around 1450mmhz, that's not going to leave tons of headroom for overclocking at ambient temps. KPE cards are engineered for highest speeds possible. In addition to the hardcore stuff like a massively capable VR, 12 layer pcb with greatly improved layout and pcb heating element, we DO add extras like RGB lighting, custom kpe cooler, and single slot capability with unique display output for you other guys who like the cards too. We are currently working on ways to improve the ambient voltage scaling on 980 and 980Ti gpus.
Copper cooler on the KPE 980Ti is nice, it runs around 6c cooler than normal acx2.0. This is definitely not an Ln2 or extreme feature, but still a nice improvement.
There will be one way around this issue soon with Kp 980Ti
And hey don't just take my word for it..Check out post number #12 in the comments section in this techpowerup article about classified ti980 launching. Whoever posted that knows EXACTLY what they are talking about...I could not have said it better myself:
http://www.techpowerup.com/213971/ev...d-acx-2-0.html
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  #66  
Old 07-06-2015, 07:02 PM
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k|ngp|n k|ngp|n is offline
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Originally Posted by digmeahole View Post
just answered your pm. sorry it took me so long as i just got home form work... Sorry for the misunderstanding as i did not mean to imply it was on purpose.
No problemo man!
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  #67  
Old 07-11-2015, 02:42 PM
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Blackjack Blackjack is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k|ngp|n View Post
Honestly speaking, I think most end users don't even realize how maxwell gpus are voltage capped at ambient type cooling. I can tell by many of the comments at OC.net, elsewhere, and also here in these card XOC bios threads. Especially compared to kepler. KP 780ti scaled great on voltage with air/water temps. Basically, more voltage = more clocks no matter what temperature.
With 980 and later gpus including titanX, the scaling on air/water has all but almost gone. I would say about 95% of all maxwell 980,titan-X, and 980ti gpus NO MATTER what vga brand pcb it is on, DO NOT SCALE with more voltage than 1.25v-1.275v at temps warmer than 25c or so. There is no magical bios that can effectively remove this.

This is exactly why almost every moderate-good asic titanX, 980, and yes 980ti clock around 1550mhz MAX AVERAGE at say 45-60C loading temps.
If you put 0c and colder on the card, you will see MUCH different behavior than what you see on air (green garbage all over screen when raising volts over 1.23-1.25vv or so)
Cards with very good ASIC value (75% and up) will tend to have the most "overclocking", but just like about every other maxwell gpu, they cannot overvolt past 1.23v-1.25v.
So highest asic cards like 80% +are almost always going to be the ones that can 1600+ on air/water, and again they do it pretty much WITHOUT overvolting over 1.23v-1.25v. Maxwell gpus with lower asic value like 65% will not be so great at air/water because these low asic gpus need voltage to scale compared to match the overclock of the high asic gpus( USING SAME USABLE VOLTAGE 1.23-1.25v)

The bios's I posted basically allow you to set a higher voltage on air/water. Some gpus can scale more, some cant, some actually will NEED more voltage than was previously needed to run same frequency. All different.

Have a better understanding now?
As a weekend warrior, 980KPE and Titan x owner and freezer, that makes no sense.

Titan x offers little to no cold scaling without extra volts, i.e. powerboard.

Most 980's with cold and volts scale very well.

Still doesn't answer why 980KPE specifically does not scale well with voltage and cold. At least not nearly as well as most other 980's
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  #68  
Old 07-12-2015, 06:58 PM
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k|ngp|n k|ngp|n is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackjack View Post
As a weekend warrior, 980KPE and Titan x owner and freezer, that makes no sense.

Titan x offers little to no cold scaling without extra volts, i.e. powerboard.

Most 980's with cold and volts scale very well.

Still doesn't answer why 980KPE specifically does not scale well with voltage and cold. At least not nearly as well as most other 980's
What's not making sense about what i said? Seems like you get it. Same behavior is present on all Maxwell gpus (titanx, Ti, and 980).
Like you said, Maxwell gpus need two things to raise clocks, voltage and cold. It doesn't matter what gpu it is. They wont take much volts, unless temps are lower and lower.
980 uses slightly less voltage than ti/titan-X needs, that's about only difference.
This IS the behavior of most Maxwells with voltage/ambient cooling (20c-60c). The gpus generally don't scale clocks with voltage on air (max ambient clocks 1500-1600), it wont matter what gpu you are using or what voltage control you have to use, especially when clocked already over 1400mhz. The overclocking on air is pretty limited to the bin of the gpu and what it does at nearly stock voltage. Titan-X scales great on cold and you don't need a power board to push it . With just feedback mod on vrm controller you can give titan-X, 980, and 980 TI it 1.8v+ without power board.
You said titan-X offers little to no scaling on cold without voltage, that's correct. But actually a better way to say is "titan-X, Ti, and 980 offer little to no VOLTAGE scaling without cold". This is exactly what I'm saying.
On the flip side without voltage no gpu is gonna scale much on cold, even ln2 temps. We did 1900+ mhz firestrike on Titan-x and 980ti reference cards internally before we even put any E-power boards on them, its part of our process here always with new vga's. WE also like to see where the reference pwm fails/burns at. We made it to 1.7v+ before any meltdowns.
KPE 980 scales with cold temps when you put a container on it and pull the temps down. It won't really scale up with clocks/voltage at ambient temps however..similar to most other maxwell gpus. 980 will have more headroom than ti and titan-X cuz of thermals, but its not much.
Some of the previous bios I posted for better kpe980 air perf can help some gpus on air go a little higher by allowing you to raise voltage(not normal behavior of any of these gpus post 780ti)., but we changed something in the bios to allow it to do that. It doesn't have the same effect on all cards however.

Last edited by k|ngp|n; 07-13-2015 at 12:16 AM.
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  #69  
Old 07-13-2015, 11:20 AM
steponz steponz is offline
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^ Exactly.....
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  #70  
Old 07-22-2015, 08:49 PM
ssiperko ssiperko is offline
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Any further "magic" bios for us Vince?



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